zero did all the work and found this.
just wanted to post it on a thread, because some lurkers might not want to go off site to look at stuff.
hats off to zero.. .
Utterly repugnant - so glad not to be an elder anymore. The
WTS leadership is delusional and that creates the foundation
for their use of well defined mind control techniques to
manipulate the elders and the publishers. What a disgusting
mess they have made. I don't know if anyone is capable of cleaning
it up without destroying it.
I am very glad that I got my family and some of my friends out
when I did.
lets talk about the elders, circuit overseers and district overseers youve dealt with.
the good, the bad, the ugly, the stupid, etc.
just go ahead and unload both barrels; reload if you want to.. then in a future thread we can discuss how to drain the energy from these memories so that you remember without reliving.
O.K. – let’s talk about the elders, circuit overseers and district overseers you’ve dealt with. The good, the bad, the ugly, the stupid, etc. Just go ahead and unload both barrels; reload if you want to.
Then in a future thread we can discuss how to drain the energy from these memories so that you remember without reliving. There are some simple and effective techniques to recover from post traumatic distress.
I want to add that I’ve read some remarkable posts in the two threads listed below. I wish there was more serious, quality discussion like this.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17907&site=3
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17880&site=3
hi borgfree: on freefallins post you noted the following, i know there are some serving as elders etc.
who may be decent people apart from the wt.
however, the people they hurt by enforcing the wt doctrines are just as hurt as if done by an unloving elder.
Hello Amnesian:
It's folks like you that give us "Watchtower apostates" a bad
name ;-)
Seriously though, you should consider taking a deep breath
and searching out the middle ground. Don't be like those former
JWs, that Ray Franz describes as "exchanging one form of extremism
for another."
There are many fine elders in the WTS at various stages in their
spiritual jounrney who act as powerful voices of moderation in
their congregations by protecting the flock from radical, stupid
elders who wrecklessly impose their whims on the publishers. In my
case, the "straw that broke the camels back" was when the body of
elders wanted to know the last time that I had disfellowshipped a young person.
I have left many good friends and a number of family members behind
in the WTS. The mind control and their personal circumstances and
beliefs hold them prisoner. I hope and pray for compassionate guards
and wardens.
Better yet, I hope that moderates take control of the governing body
and truly reform the WTS and open all of the prison gates. That may
take a very long time to happen, if ever, but one thing is for sure.
If all of the balanced, loving older men resign - things will get worse for those we love and change will never happen.
Best regards,
Lee
I think we have to respect the choices that other elders make. In the end, we all accept the natural consequences of our choices. I see nothing to gain by second guessing others in this regard and hope that others don't judge me for way the I handled my situation. I did the best that I could, as I'm sure you did too.Boy, LE, do I ever disagree with this.
This kind of reasoning can only be justified when one's choices affect only him as the chooser. That's not the case with elders. These men stay in the business of judging others---their hearts, their motives, their intentions, no less!--- and affecting the very course of our entire lives but are not to be judged by us? Rubbish!
Elders who remain such for the WTS, no matter how well-intentioned and decent they perceive themselves to be, are as guilty of perpetuating egregious abuse and inflicting monstrous damage on others--- no matter how thoughtfully they claim to execute such--- as the wicked elder who feels no need absolution for his rotteness. It is unconscionable to justify carrying out atrocities on trusting innocents by claiming to do so in the service of some greater cause. To suggest that they shouldn't be judged by us sadly smacks of the same type "counsel" the Society excels at dispensing to inflict guilt on the multitude for believing their lying eyes.
-AMNESIAN
hi borgfree: on freefallins post you noted the following, i know there are some serving as elders etc.
who may be decent people apart from the wt.
however, the people they hurt by enforcing the wt doctrines are just as hurt as if done by an unloving elder.
Hello Amazing,
You wrote:
"I am not sure how to judge current JW Elders who are no longer JWs in their hearts."
Why judge individuals at all? From a Christian perspective, that role
belongs to Jesus. From a legal perspective that role belongs to a jury.
Some of these folks are helping and can play an important role in
moving the organization to where it needs to be. If I could have stomached it, I would have stayed longer. Most really do their very best. In some ways I still feel like I betrayed some of the members of my congregation by leaving them in the hands of oppressive wolves.
I think we have to respect the choices that other elders make. In the
end, we all accept the natural consequences of our choices. I see nothing to gain by second guessing others in this regard and hope that
others don't judge me for way the I handled my situation. I did the best that I could, as I'm sure you did too.
Best regards,
Lee
shortly after i resigned as an elder, i attended a number.
of meetings at a local unitarian universalist church.. i don't feel any pressing need to join another organization.. if i did, however, i would seriously consider this one.. it is a safe place to recover from a negative experience.
with organized religion.
Shortly after I resigned as an elder, I attended a number
of meetings at a local Unitarian Universalist church.
I don't feel any pressing need to join another organization.
If I did, however, I would seriously consider this one.
It is a safe place to recover from a negative experience
with organized religion.
One of the local ministers, an atheist, asked me to speak
to the local congregation about Jehovah's Witnesses and
blood. It was an interesting experience.
There is an incredible diversity of beliefs within this
community and some of their meetings feel more like a lecture
in a college classroom.
The U.U.'s have more college graduates, on a percentage basis,
than any other religion in the U.S. - these are intelligent,
balanced, open minded, skeptical people.
On the downside, it didn't feel like a religious experience to me.
However, there is a sense of community and some religious people to
be found in the group, as well as respect and admiration for higher
principles and teachings of all faiths.
I am very impressed with their model and suspect that in the future
other religions may move to the left as they learn from the U.U.'s.
It is a religious system capable of sustaining peace.
One of the things I admire about many JW's is their desire to search for knowledge. I would like to see the WTS grow into an organization
with a thirst for truth and open to the free flow of knowledge, ideas and respect for its members.
At present the WTS is a dungeon for those with intellect and an inquiring mind. It will probably remain as it is for a very long time.
Lee
one of my sister who is a jw is still trying to keep contact with us and she's is supposed to shun us.
the problem is that i don't know if i want to see her again, we have almost nothing in common and i see her just once a year but she continue to send us letters at every months and she always told us that she love us.
i would like to do something to make her realize that the wbts doesn't have the truth but i know that she will consider me as an apostate if i say something bad about the jw.. black holes are where god divided by zero.
Nicolas,
I believe it can be helpful to consider what your motivation is for helping your sister to leave the WTS? When viewing her circumstances, do you sincerely believe that it is in her best interest to leave the WTS as this time? If you were successful in convincing her to leave, are you prepared to make a substantial contribution of your time to provide the emotional support she will require during recovery?
If the answer to these questions is yes, then you should begin a dialogue with her on those issues you believe she would be the most sensitive to.
Lee
there, i said it.. how can you leave one brainwashing controlling world view and dive right into another?!.
duh!!!.
see http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17131&site=3 for a great example of why they suck.. aaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhh!.
Hi Mike,
I think I know what you're driving at. Here is what I have observed. In a general sense
Jehovah's Witnesses are individuals who tend to be given to extremes. This is especially
true of those who voluntarily join the WTS. It follows that many former JWs, especially
those who had voluntarily joined the WTS rather than those raised by JW parents,
would continue to be drawn towards extremes in their post WT lives.
One of the keys to living full, rich, meaningful lives is learning to be moderate in our
views. This will always be a struggle for many former JWs for a host of reasons, some
completely unrelated to their WT experience.
For those who wish to maintain their Christian identity, there are many mainstream
Protestant churches that strive to be moderate. Some of the Methodists, Episcopalians,
and Congregational churches do quite nicely. Many of the other Christian groups -
Baptists, Assembly of God, Church of the Nazarene, seem almost as radical
as the WTS in many ways.
We all have to travel our own path.
Lee
i've been inactive for over 4 years now but i'm still attached though - loosely.. i will occassionally attend a meeting or portion of an assembly or convention.. i get a mixed reception at these gatherings.
generally my experience has.
been that the larger the group, the more inclined i am to run into some who.
I've been inactive for over 4 years now but I'm still attached though - loosely.
I will occassionally attend a meeting or portion of an assembly or convention.
I get a mixed reception at these gatherings. Generally my experience has
been that the larger the group, the more inclined I am to run into some who
will give nasty looks or shun me. The smaller the gathering the better. The
best functions I've attended have been the funerals of older JWs I have known
for many decades. I have always felt welcome and been treated very well
on these occassions. The bulk of attendees are much older and have mellowed
a bit in their views and I think the occassion probably causes them to reflect
on the nearness of their own deaths and diminished confidence in the WTS
predictions regarding the "imminent" paradise. They don't seem to be in any
mood to "shun" or be nasty.
This might be an indication of a good time to approach JW family members or
friends concerning the truth about "the truth", if that is something you feel
you should do.
I'm interested in knowing if others have observed this peculiarity regarding
JWs as well.
Lee
over at worldnet daily, there is a report of a young boy.
who will escape a future of pain, suffering, and death.
because stem cells were used to eliminate his sickel cell.
Rekless,
Do we have your story on the blood site? If not, we'd like to have it.
Stem cells are an interesting area for the WT. Sam and I have discussed
this several times. Stem cells can be harvested from blood or bone marrow.
They have no basis for prohibiting stems cells harvested from bone marrow
but their policy on blood won't allow the use of formed cellular elements.
It's just one more goofy aspect to their attempt to practice medicine.
Some day they will be made to answer for giving what amounts to medical
advice.
Lee
dung beetle has been in touch with me.... we need to know how many to plan for.... this has to do with trying to find an area that is free possibally even having those living in las vegas making the main meal the those who are out of towners buy deli salids and so forth.. it can happen but please let's get this organized to a degree it will come off smoothly.. if it is just a gaming thing then it is a gaming thing...but if it is a serious gathering to meet and associate then that is another thing which i am interested in.. dan
If timing is right, I'll come.
